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RE: Who is pulling 40 plus feet?
What about upgrading the brakes on the TV rather than trading in the truck? Still would not have duals... but...
http://www.stillen.com/product.asp?id=APBRKIT6P&c=BR&year=&make=&model=
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DrewNCorinn
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01/16/08 12:42am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: Who is pulling 40 plus feet?
And another...
Specs:
2005 F-350 CC LB 6.0L- 20 gal compressor and approx 12 cu. ft of firewood, Line-x, and I was driving alone (no passengers, wife and kids came the next day). Maybe 10 Gal of diesel on board.
2007 WW FTL 4005 - TRX450ES, TRX400, Suzuki 80, Polaris 50, about 20 gal H20, and 20 gal gas (I travel minimal, and fill up tanks close to camp location). Riding gear, food for 3-4 days, cloths, bedding.
Weights:
TV Steer axle: 4950 lbs
TV Drive axle: 7150 lbs
TV Combined: 12150 lbs
Trailer front axle: 4600 lbs
Trailer center axle: 4650 lbs
Trailer rear axle: 5650 lbs
Total trailer (3 axles): 14550 lbs
* If #'s don't add up, blame the scales, not me!!!
Owners manual limits:
Maximum GCWR for F350 w/3.73's : 23000 lbs.
Maximum trailer: 23000 lbs.
Max GAWR Front: 6000 lbs
Max GAWR Rear: 7000 lbs.
Max Load E tire Rating (Conti's): 3350 lbs (OR 6700/axle)
Conclusions:
TV Steer axle and tires: Good
TV Rear axle is over Max GAWR by 150 lbs
TV Rear tires are over Max by 450 lbs
Trailer axle weights are good, but rear trailer axle is 1100 lbs over other trailer axles.
Lastly, TV (12150lbs)+ trailer (14,550 lbs)= 26700lbs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Over GCWR by 3700 lbs.
Oops.
Plenty of power to pull it all, air down to 15 psi at the beach, and drive it on the dunes. HOWEVER, over weight, therefore, underbraked.
Looks like I need to start looking for an F450/550.
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DrewNCorinn
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01/16/08 12:37am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: Who is pulling 40 plus feet?
Got this from another thread... Found 2 other guys pulling this same trailer on here with F-350s, I wonder if I could figure out a good way to upgrade the TV brakes? The other thing is you guys are correct... if this is right... and I would guess it is then add 17300 for the trailer to 2700 for toys equals 20,000 lbs... plus the weight of the truck which is 7700 lbs for a total of 27700 lbs which is not 8 or 12% over but 16% over the 3500HDs GCWR... Getting scarier... but let me point out that this guy at least has duals... but the guys towing with F350s actually have lower GCWRs that I do? Not that this makes it a good idea!
TV 06 Dodge 3500 dually full fuel and a few spare tires in bed
Steer axle=4640
Drive axle=3620
Gross axle=8260
Old Trailer
06 Sandpiper 37' dual slide, seperate garage
Weigh was on my way to trade in so totally empty
Steer axle= 4880
Drive axle= 6560
Trailer axle=9340
Gross= 20780
So Trailer weight = 12,520 pin weight=2,940
New Trailer
45' WW FULL THROTTLE with all options (8D batteries, 2 a/c, dual beds in garage, kicker sound, inverter, etc..
weigh was done as soon as I pulled out of dealership with no water and no gas in trailer but propane tanks full.
Steer axle= 4940
Drive Axle= 7760
Trailer Axle= 12860
Gross= 25560
So Trailer weight= 17,300 pin weight=4140
Also got my new sticker from WW. GVWR for trailer is now 20K
(if this is the case says Drew... why does the brochure say differently... On the 2009s have they figured out a way to save some weight somewhere else?)
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DrewNCorinn
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01/16/08 12:24am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: Toy Haulers w/12' Garages
Akfiredawg... what are you pulling with... I am wondering if my truck will be adequate... sorry to hijack the thread...
Drew in Yootah
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DrewNCorinn
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01/16/08 12:18am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: Who is pulling 40 plus feet?
By the way... the Rear wheel weight of my truck unloaded is 3300 LBS... The Stock Tires on a 3500 HD SWR... are rated at 3150 lbs each for a Total of 6300 LBS with an Axel rated at 11,400. The new Toyo Open Countrys are rated at 3750 per tire... This means one tire could hold the trucks weight plus 450 lbs... Tire wise I have room for an additional 4200 lbs on the rear axel right?
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DrewNCorinn
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01/16/08 12:06am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: Marysvale, Utah
I live close... I have ridden my Ranger on every trail major in the Piaute system before some of them got marked. There are a very few you should not try. I am getting a RZR for this very reason. I will always stay a Lizzie and Charlies as they are friends of ours at this point... They have a Rhino and a Ranger for rent so they will be able to tell you which trails to keep off and which will be OK. There is a new map out this year that clearly marks what trails work for what vehicles. Get one... they are 10 bucks. Paiute is the Glamis of trail riding. Like 5000 miles of developed marked trails in the system. It is a must see... and have the kids bring cameras for the wildlife... fishin poles for fishin... there is a reservior nearby for skiing... and the dunes (little Sahara) are less than 2 hours from the Piaute System if you get to missing the sand. We also have the Coral Pink dunes and there are about 4 other trail systems within 2 hours of there... Duck Creek, 5 mile pass, American Fork Canyon (this is the back side of the major Utah Ski Resorts) The Arapeen System to name a few... They will have a blast. Look into their under 16 license... it may be required but I don't know how they deal with that for out of state visitors... There are 3 or 4 day long or half day rides out of Marysvale where you do not double back on the same road you rode out on which is beautiful. You will see lots of old mines... I can guarantee mountain goats, elk and deer... There are places you can ride to the top of mountains and literally see for hundreds of miles where you can basically see the earth curve away. The trails are rated... some are very technical... we have had people on 2 wheel drive machines with us on every trip... The rider on this type machine if they are very good can pull it off but I have seen many roll machines as well. With teens please make sure they follow the rules... we have very few wierdos salting trails with nails etc... this is because you will get turned in by other riders if you are abusing our privilige as we dont want this screwed up, it is the residents of this counties life blood... They will turn you in if you are riding off trail and they see you. Especially in wet or sensative areas. In about 70% of the areas you can recieve a verzion Cell signal... Just FYI... If you have extra friends who do not have an RV... there is a cottage at lizzie and charlies that is awesome and will sleep 8. You can park just ajacent to it. The best spots are in the very back of the RV park and are pull thrus with trees, grass and the pavilion. I do not see any way the new RV park will have any significant trees unless they bring em in... Most RV parks like this are gravelled over as it is hard to have large grassy areas when 95% of your clientele ride assorted RVs. Let me know when you are planning to come up... Maybe I can meet you! Or talk you through some things to see while you ride if I cannot...
Drew in Yootah
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DrewNCorinn
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01/15/08 11:53pm |
Toy Haulers
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What is your real weight, The Real Deal...
In the 5ver forum there is an interesting non bashing forum showing real weights of trucks and trailers... I would suggest we start one here. I really would give my teeth to know how much a Full Throttle FTL 4005 loaded versus unloaded would really weigh.. I have heard of people getting bigger stickers but it is my understanding that the trailers off the line as measured by toyhauler magazine were in line with their stickered weights... The Ragin they measured was actually about 500 lbs under in both gross weight and pin weight...
Drew
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DrewNCorinn
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01/15/08 11:22pm |
Toy Haulers
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RE: Who is pulling 40 plus feet?
I am hearing ya... Still guys... the 3500HD dually has the same trans... the same axels, same brakes and the tires are the difference but the tires on my truck will handle a difference over the stock 3500HD swr tires of 1400 lbs... the GCWR of a DRW 3500 HD vs a SWR 2500 HD is 1500 lbs... If the GCWR is 22,000 and the trailer loaded weighs 18000 and the truck weighs 7700 lbs sans family then the total is 25,500 which is 3000 lbs over the GCWR total. (12% over) If my better rubber allows me to carry 1500 lbs more (correcting the weak link) then I am 8% over! I understand the safety of the redundancy of the 2 rear wheels but even then the amount of rubber on the road with a DRW versus a 285/75 R17 e range tire cannot be that much more. I get that it provides more stability laterally and understand the redundancy factor of duals . Man I wish I could just go out and try pulling one down the canyon here (7% grade) and see what it feels like... I know there is a huge difference between a F-350 and an F-450 in brakes, wheels, and I believe axel of the truck. There is practically no difference between a F-250 and an F350 as there is not really a difference between a 2500HD and a 3500HD... Just tires and a spring guys the GCWR for a 3500 and a 2500HD are the same... unless you get the duals in which case you get the additional 1500 lbs GCWR. The GCWR of a F350 DRW is 20000 pounds! That is much less than a GCWR of a 2500HD SWR... Dang... I think to really do this right and by the book I would have to switch brands to a F-450...
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DrewNCorinn
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01/15/08 11:15pm |
Toy Haulers
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I have to upgrade my hitch... what to do?
I am getting a larger trailer and need to move up from a sliding 16K reese rocker head hitch... Holes are already in for the rails... heck they are installed... Is there a sliding solution for 20K or 22K lbs that fits the reese rails I have installed already? If not do any of you have a suggestion as to where to go from here that will be as pretty as possible considering that holes are drilled for brackets and cut for rails already... Thanks in advance...
Drew in Yootah
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DrewNCorinn
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01/15/08 10:09pm |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Les Schwab says Carlisle tires are the "BEST"
I had some crappy Kendas on my trailer and had a tread separation and the flopping tread did a lot of damage... Fortunatly Forrest River ponied up... after a lot of thought and deliberation (and research) I went with Michelin XPS Ribbed (I do have 16 inch wheels). They are more expensive... I got them at Costco... They were over $200 each but are really the best trailer tire on the market. I think if you put XPS ribbed into the search that is what you will find. I am buying a new WW FTL 4005 and the first thing I will do is pull the stock tires and put XPS Ribbed tires on the thing.
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DrewNCorinn
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01/14/08 02:17pm |
Toy Haulers
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RE: Generator running when traveling?
I would suggest figuring out how to wire a 10 guage wire back to the garage for DC (From the batteries) with a cigarette lighter plug and then plug a little 350 watt inverter into that and the charger into that. I see no issue with running the genny... I do it myself an hour before i arrive to run the C/A so the trailer is cooled off before I hit the campground but seems wastefull overkill to run it just to charge a little battery up. How about take the battery out and put it up next to the coach batteries with a couple of alligator clips to the big battery terminals?
Drew
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DrewNCorinn
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01/14/08 01:41pm |
Toy Haulers
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RE: Who is pulling 40 plus feet?
OK weight police... here is the deal... The 3500HD has a pin weight rating of 3500 lbs... It has the same brakes and Axel that my truck has (2500HD D/A)... one more leaf spring. I have the air bags to level my load... could add a spring but I like the adjustability.
The WW FTL4005 without the extra 5 feet has a empty pin weight of 3500 lbs per their brochure... I am sure this is empty... but they do not offer the trailer in Filon any longer so this is with gel coat... So I add a 300 pound Generator, 4 big 6 volt batteries, a Big mattress and 100 lbs of propane and such to that which increases the pin weight... and then the toys that I believe would lower the pin weight due to them being rear of the tires... Carrying water and toys would be foolish as it holds 150 gallons (1251 lbs) of fresh... but it is in the back and would lighten the pin so perhaps if I was not carrying toys (which weigh 2800 lbs all told) I would put the water and 375 pounds (60 gallons) of gasoline in the rear of the trailer. The trailer weighs 18000 lbs loaded with 4400 of that being the load as per the manufacturer. The Axel rating on the 2500HD is the same as the 3500HD... the differences being the tires so the rating is 11,400 on the axel. The tires on the 3500 HD SWR are rated at 3150 per tire... The new Toyo Open Country Load range e 285/75 R17 tires I have are rated for 3750 per tire... So... where is the weak link here guys... and how much over am I going to be.
I see guys towing with these all the time, many of them I know are oblivious. I suspect I will move forward but I do want to know if I am beyond the stupid factor. To let you know... I check my brakes (trailer brakes) on all 4 axels before descending a 8% canyon with both my trailers and never ever felt even slightly out of control or like I was being pushed but the first time I did so I made my family ride in a different car as I was AFRAID till after I tried it and realized it was not bad at all. Nor do I feel dragged by the trailers. I LOVE the Allison transmission braking. I think the weak link for me would be what if the umbilical came unplugged (oh the horror) prior to descending a big hill? Therein lies the scary situation. Though with the Allison and the brakes on the truck I suspect it would not be pretty but that I could get the load stopped... even on a 7% plus grade. The other issue is that towing this up a hill in 105 degree heat would overheat the truck! I know it would! I have done this with my 13,500 fully loaded existing 5ver. Had to pull over and wait as it limped the truck...
The 3500HD is rated to pull 16,700 as a 5ver... This trailer loaded will be around 18000 lbs... so I would be 7% over but would have rear tires that are rated at 16% over what the 3500HD tires are rated at. Again... Where am I crazy? (I would guess that adding 5 feet to the trailer will add an additional 1000 lbs but will check there in which case I would be 12% over)
My wife weighs 130lbs (don't let her know I said so) I weigh 195 lbs and my kids together won't weigh over 100 lbs for several more years), the bigger tank on the truck will add 193 lbs with fuel over what the stock tank weighs. Total weight of people plus total fuel will be about 750 lbs... I had not thought about it till I read something on here but could loose the tail gate and replace with a cargo net... I think that lowers weights by 130 lbs but that is a guess...
I can avoid getting the bigger diesel tank and reduce that potential weight by 193 lbs... I am not getting the sound system (maybe I should?) but will be getting the double electric beds but they will be in the very back so should lower pin weight. I think having a FTL or VOlvo heavy duty truck would be ideal but do not even have a place to park it let alone purchasing it and having it sit 95% of the time. If this is just impossible I will just end up with a smaller trailer. I have 2 buddies who have 40 footers now and tow one with a stock 2005 F-350 and the other with a 2006 Mega Cab Dodge. My truck is better set up than either of these guys and most of the others I watch out there. I do however realize I am over but want to know if "real world" experience out there would say I was being unreasonable to the point that I should look at a different set up for the trailer.
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DrewNCorinn
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01/14/08 01:04pm |
Toy Haulers
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RE: On The Rocks TV Show
Well.... in a day or so when they get me straightened out Ill welcome you to the forum... Something happened with my login as I have not been on for about 5 months but I originally joined in July of 2002 to get info on my first 5ver purchase... I did not go to the Hammers last year but my Polaris Ranger did with Matthew and Taran who are also Brads buddies. I am going to be ordering a WW Full Throttle at 45 feet in about 2 months and if I had that I would be there! But without it I dont want to tandem pull that far as it is a pain in the butt. My friends will be there again and will take my Ranger again behind a rented motorhome. I may come with them but it looks iffy... now if he comes up to the cedar city rock crawls Ill be there! Maybe Ill see ya! So weird to meet people on-line this way!
Drew
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DrewNCorinn
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01/14/08 11:08am |
Toy Haulers
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RE: Who is pulling 40 plus feet?
Thanks for the input... A couple of additional questions for you guys. I have a 2005 2500 HD Duramax Allison quad cab truck... I have the edge chip but I have never run it in 4 or 5 towing or not... and I have a 4 inch AFE exhaust and AFE air intake/filter... I have airsprings on the back so I can level any load. I have 17 inch wheels and the new Toyo open country E range tires that will handle 3750 lbs per tire. I also have hensleys brake controller... not your average tekonsha prodigy. I know that the Axel is rated for 11,400 lbs on the truck and having been tandem pulling what I think is about 16,800 lbs I know the truck has enough power to pull this. The pin on the trailer I am looking at is 2990 lbs... that is before I add stuff to the truck including a genny. With my current set up I am actually just about 200 lbs over my pin weigh rating but this will take me up several hundred lbs more. However with my current set up as soon as I put the second toy trailer behind the first... I am doing great as it lowers my pin weight even while increasing my load. What are your thoughts... Weight police feel free to chime in. your thoughts are welcome as long as they are not rants I will take it all in. I have wrecked a trailer on the freeway before and despite the tandem towing thing I am actually a really careful kind of guy. (my second trailer is a dual axel trailer now and I told the guys who custom built the thing I wanted to be able to pull into the camp ground with a blowout I had been running on for 2 hours and not know the difference. 2 7500 lb axles and 16 inch wheels... brakes on both axels... when one would do just fine. Also I have to remember that I may be carrying an additional 30 gallons of fuel if I get the new super tank... Someone mentioned not fitting everything... You are right... Probably cannot. However the larger of the 4 4 wheelers I own are polaris sportsman 90s... The smaller ones are small enough I can put one in the bed of the ranger and one in a basket in front of my truck... I have a hitch up there and a basket... The wheelers actually are narrow enough I believe that the RZR and one of the little Sportsmen will easily fit side by side in the Full Throttle as they are 38.5 and 50 inches wide... for a total of 7 foot 3 inches wide... the length of the Sportsman 90 is 61.5 versus 102 for the RZR so I am not sure that I can fit both 90s but the real question is can I fit the RZR in behind the Ranger... they really say they need 17.91 feet... end to end... The question is can I fit the nose of the rzr under the bed of the Ranger and get a foot? or I could figure a winch spot to get the front of the RZR lifted up onto the back of the ranger bed or something... We will have to see... Wife will not go for toys being in the main living area. I have to have a wall of some sort...
Drew
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DrewNCorinn
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01/12/08 10:30pm |
Toy Haulers
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Who is pulling 40 plus feet?
Guys I have a 32 foot cardinal 5ver now and am looking into moving up... I have a polaris Ranger and a RZR as well as a couple of quads (small ones) and if I did want to carry it all it looks like it may even be tight in the Weekend Warrior Full Throttle 4005 stretched to 45 feet (that is a 17 foot garage) I have been tandem pulling for the past 2 years with no problems but it is impossible to back up. I have been to disney land from here in Utah 3 times and the only disadvantage I can think of is getting myself in a jamb in a culdesac or something with a 45 foot trailer. What are the considerations you have to think about with such a beast. I am interested as I would guess that this thing will be huge but easier than having to deal with 2 pivot points and having to back a 5ver onto a 2nd trailer etc. I would guess you have to plan your trips better... and I would guess that prior to making a purchase like this I will go upgrade my fuel tank to a super tank so I can carry 65 gallons and avoid as much in the way of fuel stops as I can. For those who have these.. are they very difficult to get into a parking space/ garage? How much harder than say a dinky 32 foot 5ver?
Thanks for the input and your help...
Drew
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DrewNCorinn
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01/11/08 03:10pm |
Toy Haulers
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RE: Daughter learned how to ride
My little girl got a chinese atv 110 when she was 3. She was very carefully monitored for a year... her little hand was too small for the brake so I bled the fluid off a little and then she could pull it and stop the thing. At this point she is almost 6 which was the age her big sis got her little one (they both got the little machines at the same time) they are pretty unreliable. For christmas they both got polaris sportsman 90s but the little one who is 6 still will only ride that one with an adult on the back for the next couple of years. Her sister who is almost 9 has it mastered. We have written laminated rules we read before they ride each time... and more than that we have full protective gear for them and there are no exceptions.
Drew
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DrewNCorinn
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01/08/08 10:01pm |
Toy Haulers
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RE: Found a simple way to haul extra water.
How about filling the tank half full when trip is done and popping a bleach tab in there... then empty the water and leave it damp... the bleach tab will prevent mildew... then before use again you can rinse.. Better yet... camping world has a bladder that is designed for this.
Drew
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DrewNCorinn
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01/08/08 09:35pm |
Toy Haulers
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RE: On The Rocks TV Show
Tell my buddy Brad "Cookie" hello from Drew in Utah!
Drew... In Utah
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DrewNCorinn
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01/08/08 09:11pm |
Toy Haulers
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